Josh Paurini: Rebuilding Strength from the Inside Out

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 Ah, welcome, beautiful listeners. The first episode of The Self Experiment, um, who really knows how long this will last. This could, this could just blow up first episode and uh, could be it. So thank you for joining what you can. Um, yeah, my name is Rocky Rauner and this is, uh, just a little experiment. I thought I'd start, um, maybe 'cause something snuck up on me the other day.

Um, and I'm not here 'cause I think I know all the answers. It's actually, um. It came up that I left a job that I, um, thought I knew everything about and I thought I knew how to live. And, um, I ended up realizing there's a lot of things that people didn't teach me. And, um, a lot of things, I mean, they teach you how to, how to run, how to do pe, how to do math, but they don't really teach you how to be strong, um, mentally, um, physically and spiritually, I guess.

And, um, I just thought what is, is a better way, uh, to get that information than to speak to people that I, uh, that I admire and that inspire me to, um, find the answers and live a better life. So with saying that, uh, today's guest is someone who has spent over 20 years, um, not just transforming bodies, but reshaping how we think about strength, resilience, what it means to be present in our own skin.

Josh Paurini, our hero. Good brother, how are you? Oh, I am. Uh, yeah, I'm really good. Um, nervous, but, uh, we'll see how we go. We'll see how we go. Love that intro, my friend. Thanks for being, uh, the first one. Like I said, you could be the last, so, um, we'll see how we go. Um, there is one thing that I wanted to talk about before we, um, get into everything though, and something I need you to confirm and something that's, uh, I need a recording of, uh, because I tell people the story and people don't believe me.

Um, so we, um, we, we lived on the same street growing up. Um, you were about 10 houses up from me. Uh, I don't even know how old we were. Were we an intermediate or I think it was eight, nine? Yeah. Okay. So primary. Um, yeah, so I've come up like we normally did and, um. Mucking around and what was it? Like a rumpus room?

Yeah. Back area where the kids games, room you, games room where the kids played and kept out of the adults here. Um, now I was throwing darts at a board and, um, as you are at eight or nine clunk and it hit that, it fell to the ground. Now I've gone to pick it up. I, I dunno how this has happened, but I've stood up and now your brother's throwing a dart and it's hit me right in the side of the temple and like, he's a good shot.

He played basketball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has a really good shot. 'cause, uh, centimeters like right. I guess it would be now I would've been blind, but he is got it right in the side of my, the soft part of my temple. Yeah. And it's stuck. It's, it got stuck in there. Stuck in, yeah. So I had to pull it out. Yeah, my, my, my, uh, plane for that day was over and I just remember walking home telling mama she did not believe me.

I, I tell my wife and I don't think she, um. She finds it funny, but I don't think she, she exactly believes me. So we just need it on record, um, that this actually happened. Yeah, I remember that slightly differently. Okay. Um, so what, okay, what's, what? Um, most of that is absolutely factual, but my, I have a vivid memory of you, um, standing next to the butt top board.

Um, it's my brother's turn next and you're going, Hey, Eli, throw it, and you stick in your face next to the tar board probably. And, and I'm going, no, no, no, no, no, no, because back then my brother wasn't skilled. Okay. Right. And so I'm watching him like, and he's figuring out if he's right-handed or lefthanded because he can do both.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no. And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. It's like, you know, the apple on the head thing, you know, like, here's the dartboard and here's here's my face. And, and he threw it. And it stuck right into your temple in the middle of your temple. And I, my, I went white.

I was like, we've just killed. I'm free. Well, he had, I was like, and then, um, mom, mom, he like threw a dart, hit rocky in the head. And so I just remember her giving you a cold flannel and I'm like, what the, what the hell a cold flannel gonna do and sending you home? It's been step in the head. Yeah. It's coming back to me now.

That's, yeah. And then, um, we never, you were never, I assume you told your mom and you were never allowed to play with us again. That was what I went my whole life thinking that that was the truth. No. Well, maybe, um, maybe 'cause I got the first bit wrong. Maybe I got the, no, I, I don't think my mom believed me.

you, uh, played until, was it: 2013

'cause you played in New Zealand. Um, it was a semi-professional league because we only played half of the year. Yeah. Um, but it was also, um, semi-professional. 'cause it wasn't, um, a lot, there wasn't a lot of money. Yeah. So I remember at my peak I was getting just under $300 a week. Right. Um. Might, that might even been a fortnight.

And to me, back then, that was a lot of, lot of money. Um, I was, I was stoked, you know? Um, and that, that wasn't, that was like for one season, some seasons that you, you got paid nothing. Um, some seasons, you know, the teams would come in and explain, Hey, we need to be able to be competitive and, and save our money for two American athletes to come over.

And, and you were cool with that 'cause you got to play with better, better players. And, and I'm actually thankful, um, that it worked out like that because I, you know, built some friendships and some relationships with some, some top guys, um, from the states. Uh, and, uh, and yeah, so my last year I sort of, um, came outta like a retirement.

I guess you have to have a career to retire from, from it. Um, and, uh. I just said, Hey look, I just wanna play. Um, um, I moved to Christchurch. Um, I haven't played for two years, just been playing in the local, um, uh, Wellington grade, um, down there and trying to keep sharp and, and, um, you know, with Five Star and, and, and they were like, yeah, come along and trial.

And, and I trialed well enough to, to earn some minutes and, um, did okay with them, but didn't realize that I, I was, um, I'd slipped a disc trying to get strong for that that year. So I played that entire year with my, my L five, um, slipped and, and because it was pushing in a certain area, it was making my hamstring, um, like not function properly and, and overtight and, and all sorts of terrible stuff.

So, because I thought that's where the pain was, treat that, and that's a massive, um, thing. So wasn't until that season finished and I went to put my daughter into her crib, um, on my back wind. And I couldn't move and froze and went, oh, hey, that's my whole life, career and, and everything. And tried to make little, little comebacks but just couldn't push enough weight or, or support enough weight with that and had to get, um, you know, talked about surgery, but I'm very anti surgery.

Um, so just tried to try to rehab it and, um, yeah, lucky enough, I know enough of that to still be running around today. Mm-hmm. What does the, um, you said your antis surgery, where does that, why is that? I mean, I just, it's just, um, you know, if you think about how the fibers are and, and, and you just, you know, slicing, lic in the fibers, you know, for you, um.

Cut a piece of meat the right way and it, and it separates the fibers, then that's gonna be softer and, and more tasty. Instead, if you go with the fibers or you're cutting the fibers, the, the right way, uh, um, that it's gonna take a lot longer to heal. And, and when it does heal, it's gonna heal up with a ton of scar tissue.

And, and so that's gonna affect the movement on the other side and, and down the kinetic chain. And, um, if you have an option, I would, I would highly recommend that you try and rehabilitate because you can. Um, the body's an amazing thing and oftentimes we've seen some miraculous recoveries, um, you know, through people putting in the, um, you know, sometimes you can, if you are young enough, you can grow these, these tendons back.

Um, although that if that was a pure tear or not, who knows? Um, but yeah, I would just, I, I think like cutting it, you, you, you, you're sort of creating another catastrophic injury. Right. Whereas if you just sort of let the body do what it needs to do and find a specialist or five at every stage and and rehab that the right way, um, you can, you can get that back to, to a hundred best you could hope for after surgery would probably be 99 just because you, you cut fibers and that's, you know, I'm just using that for traumatic effect.

But yeah, that makes, makes sense. That's how, that's how I feel and that's the experience that I've had with, with clients. Yep. So it's more like a, um, sort of a long term sort of mission to get better instead of a short term get back on the, and then you're a hundred, you've got more chance of being a hundred percent then.

Absolutely. I mean, uh, depends on what the injury is. Um, you know, I'm talking about acls, ankles, um, shoulders and things like that. Mm-hmm. But I normally find that once you cut something with a scalpel, um. In my experience, I've seen slightly worse outcomes than people that didn't get operated on. And don't get me wrong, I've seen people have operations and still come back and, and go to what I would call a hundred percent and have great careers.

Um, especially if your, um, physician or your specialist as world class, um, and you're paying a lot of money for it. Mm. Um, that it, it can be done. I'm, uh, I'm just saying that I've seen slightly less, um, success, um, after people go under the knife by a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Um, we talk, also talked about before we came, before we started recording about, um, coaching.

Um, and I just wanted to touch on what we're talking about, about how well I brought up pressure with kids at a certain age. You said that, um, pressure's not always a bad thing. Can we just elaborate on that again? Yeah, I mean, I think the context that you said was, um, there's too much pressure on kids to perform, and I think that we've gotta be careful with that narrative.

I think, um, pressure is a privilege and, and the athletes that I've worked with and spoken with and had as teammates, um, they, they live for that. That's their oxygen. You know, the more, the more pressured, the, the better. Um, and, and it's only through that pressure that, you know, you, I had a coach once say, uh, pressure makes diamonds.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, and that always stuck, stuck with me. And, and so I sort of try and had another mentor saying, struggle is growth. So I've always tried to like put myself in a position where, where is the most pressure, um, where is the most struggle? And, and go and go and chase that, that pressure, that struggle.

And I think with kids, maybe we've flipped it too much on its head and because maybe our coaches, um, had too much pressure on some of our athletes who are now parents who now didn't want that, um, that eventuality for their kids. Yeah. So we've flipped it and, um, you spoke about your sister's, uh, boys rugby team getting, uh, gets to, everyone gets to play of the day.

Everyone gets around circles. I mean, like, you know, I think that's, yeah, that's the, the. The consequences of of, of being a bit too soft, you know? Um, we need to find that middle ground. And, and I guess the, the, the point that we're missing here is that, um, athletes and kids aren't property. They, they should be, they should be choosing.

And it seems that we do a lot of theorizing and a lot of talking up here. We're using our mind stuff to, to dictate to them what they should be and shouldn't be doing. Yep. Um, you know, there's a one at the moment where it's like, um, uh, if you have a kid, don't let them play one sport, getting them to play three sports.

Um, and I'm, I'm actually. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me because you are already using this kid's week, his time, his, with his first sport that he probably, or she probably loves the most. Yep. And, and you are telling a parent that it's two times a week of training in one game, you know, at a minimum.

Right? And then that's not including gym, that's just team practices. And now you want to add a sport. So what are we, what are we doing here? And you wanna add another sport? So what are we, what are we, what are we doing here? And you're saying that those stresses are gonna prepare that kid to be able to be a more rounded athlete.

And the answer isn't that in my mind, the answer is just add to strength sessions. Hmm. You know, get, get a trainer that knows what the demands of the sport are. Yeah. And, and give that kid those stresses in a safe environment rather than getting that kid to do, do more total things with their time. Yeah.

And I think that's a reflex of, um, it sounds good on paper. Um, and no doubt if you had a kid that could play multiple sports, they would be more talented. I don't disagree with that. Um, but more is not always the answer. I think better is better. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, for sure. The, there's some kids that just that, that do and can play multiple sports a week.

Um, and absolutely love it. And, um, again, my sister and her kids, uh, I dunno how many sports they play, but she's busy almost every day. And she would rather them pick one sport, but they just love. Constantly being out, and I don't know if it's more being part of a community, um, or if they just love sport, but, um, yeah, they'd play every day if they could.

I mean, that's the thing with being a kid, right? If you, if you're given the key to the, to the shop at, like my parents said, you can play a sport every single day of the week. I would've run with that. We would've been dead broke because, you know, the fees. But you know, like I tried, I tried every sport, but I think because I tried it, um, and wanted to be really good at it, I, it meant that I couldn't spend the time playing the other sports.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's been very few people that have played two sports top level that I could think of. AB Jeff Wilson was one back in our day. Jeff Wilson. Absolutely. Um. We've gotta be careful with that. 'cause there's, there's like hundreds of basketball players that could rip at rugby or league and, and vice versa.

Like hundreds of, you know what I mean? Like, um, you can put a, an Aussie rules player in bloody any sport. And because they're used to, you know, contact from every angle, it, it applies. And I think, um, you know, where they're trying to go though is, is there'll be less injuries if you take a kid that's in this sport and give them this sport and, and it checks out.

But if the kid is like a lot, this is a problem. There's a lot of logical fallacies. There's things that sound logical. Your kid plays this sport, so get them into a sport that goes this way. That sounds really good to our brains, but it's so false. And if a kid is doing this sport Mm. Strengthen them in the areas that they're weak so they don't get hurt.

Yep. Right. That, yeah. You know, and you can do that with a, with a $8 band from countdown. Mm. You know, like, why are we adding another sport? Yeah. And I think that's a problem when, um, especially in New Zealand playing rugby or whatever, there are some kids out there that are obviously genetically way bigger than every everybody else, so they just keep playing to their strengths.

They don't worry about what, when they, you know, when it comes to it, all their weaknesses because that's just so good at one sort of like, just run the ball, don't worry about tackling, don't worry about your fitness or your, um, cardio or anything like that. Um, and when, I don't know, again, I'm not an expert when I see them get to like the top level, um, and they play against the Australians who have had that sort of all the way out through age groups.

That's when you can sort of see who's done the hard work and who sort of has just gone back on their genetics and, um, has just relied on what they can do and, uh, not tried to improve themselves, but what they can't do. I think the average human being would be blown away if they see anybody that's, um, getting paid to play rugby, rugby league or, or um, any sport, what they do in the gym and how much weight they push and how hard they work when, when they're not under the lights.

I think that would blow, blow most casual fans minds. Mm. Um, yeah, I think that's a thing that we just, 'cause we're not watching that. We're just watching the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. Well they used to release those all black, uh, workout videos. Well, they still do, but when they first started to, I think everyone, it's when it's sort of their aura is sort of picked up to a point where like they were like top level sort of every, every New Zealander like loves the All Blacks wants 'em to succeed.

But I think that's when that sort of got released, everyone was like, these guys are like top level. Yeah. Um. And I, like I was saying to you before, I'd follow everything Philadelphia, so then I would start watching the Philadelphia Eagles sort of, uh, workout videos. And some of the stuff those guys are doing is absolutely ridiculous.

Yeah. And then you wonder why they get paid so much. 'cause I've dedicated their whole life to, um, yeah. Being good at this. And especially NFL, they're only on the field for, uh, seven seconds or something. So they've dedicated their whole life to be good at that seven seconds of time and just be better than everybody else on the field for seven seconds.

Um, with the training. So talk to me about, uh, infinity. Yeah. So Infiniti Fitness was something that I created because I wanted to, um. Uh, uh, my dad, uh, had some injuries. He was trial trialing for an, uh, Australian basketball team, um, back when he was in his prime. Uh, he had an amazing career in the New Zealand League, um, and when he went to Australia, had to keep getting stronger and ended up having some serious injuries that sort of compounded and compounded and compounded.

And, um, I just, uh, he was my hero. He was, um, the stories that I heard about him rarely filled my head with, uh, I wanna do that. Um, but I really wanted to do that forever. Yeah. So, um, because, you know, I just, I don't, I didn't want to go from flash in a pan to, to that and, um, I probably saved myself too much.

You know, I just, I just thought, oh, this, the super heavy weights I'll stay away from and, and, um, I can. I can do all that without getting big. Um, but that really hurt my career, I feel, because if a coach looks down the bench and sees a player that looks skinny and small, um, he's not going to play that, play that player, um, often.

Um, which is ridiculous because you can build power. Um, I mean, I'm saying not me. 'cause I get it. There were better players than me. But what I'm saying is, um, you've gotta be careful as a coach. Like if you watch the warmups and there's one player doing 360 dunks, there's some power there. Yeah. And, and, and, um, so that argument is out, but it was a total skill thing and, and I wasn't as skilled as my teammates.

So, so fair, fair, fair play. Um, and, and so that's what, where Infinity Fitness came from is like, uh, I wanted to, um, still be able to beat my daughters when they're in their prime, 23 years old and I'm 60. Um. I'm winning that one-on-one. And, and so it was a, it was a culmination of, um, why can't we be at our prime forever?

Right? And, and age does play a part, but I think it's more, um, cardio and more weights, um, and, and having a progressively, um, stepped up plan. So that's, that's what I do. I do it online. Uh, people send me videos. I, I watch the video, slow it down. I use, um, uh, apps on my phone to, to draw guidelines and, and give them back, um, to them.

And, and, um, that's all done on an app. So they track their weights and, and we progressively overload this month and then this month. And it's a new program every month. Yep. Um, and some people want, uh, me to be able to respond to them really quickly, so they pay a, a premium. Other people are like, happy with catching up with me once a month.

Yep. So they pay again. There's just two, two tiers. Um, so yeah, that's what, and how long have you been there, there for? I've only been doing that since I moved to Bali. Um, so, uh, the end of last year, so about, okay, 10, 10 months now. And it was just a necessary, uh, evolution, uh, into, into online because um, my thing is I need to be there to see you do it.

Um, and I was like, well, how am I gonna do that if I'm not in the same country? And so video is, is how we do that. Um, so it's a video system. You video yourself working out and I can have a quick snapshot. Alright, you need to change this, you need to change this. That's great. Good job. Yeah. And yeah, that's the, that's the model.

You, it doesn't cost as much as what it would normally cost to, to train with me if I'm there. Yeah. Um, which I still do over here as a sport consultant. Um, I've got a, um, an area here where people can come and, um, you know, fix their ankles, their knees from paddle, um, get a sore back, that sort of thing. I can, I can fix that.

Or at least over four weeks we can build towards building some strength. Yeah. Um, do you have anyone that's, 'cause I know that's about, maybe about a year and a half ago I was training like an hour and a half a day and I wasn't like a supreme athlete or anything, but I felt good. Yeah. Um, and then the, I guess sort of mentally like things changed for me.

Um mm-hmm. And then I stopped, I stopped, um, working out as much 'cause it was just, I guess I wasn't feeling right enough to work out, um, mentally. Um, just talked to me about how important, um, mental clarity is to training and getting, uh, the best out of the time that you do spend training. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of layers there.

I think the, um, one of the things that's probably is gonna come out weird is that you, you don't wait for the clarity to. You train and then the clarity comes second. And that's tough to say, if there's a lot of people that are in, you know, some, some dark holes. Um, and, and you know, I, I have compassion for them.

Um, but you can start small and, and you can, you can go for a walk around the block and that is huge. And, and it's that, that act of showing up for yourself is, if I can walk around the block, I can do anything. Mm-hmm. And, and, and that's more important than getting that perfect hour and a half and following a plan.

Um, is the showing up for yourself. Yeah. Um, but there's, there's multiple levels to mindset and it's something that, um. I'm learning more and more about, I think what was really important with your intro is that, you know, you, you, you are so humble with the, I don't know, everything. And man, I, I live in that.

I live in that thing. I, the mistakes I've made are astronomical, um, as a player, as a coach, um, as a father. And so I, I think that's what I'm here on this planet for is to, to be that, that vessel that gets all of these hard lessons, that has to sit in the struggle, has to, um, figure it out and, and be compassionate along the way and, and hold space for people along the way and, and, and take, you know, uh, make sure that the words and the labels that come outta my mouth are said with the right Allah and, and, and the right grace.

And I think that's, um, that's a big part of it. Uh, yeah, because mindset, I don't think we understand it. Anyway, um, we have this thing called our mind. Um, and, you know, um, uh, you could say something like, I, I am upset with myself that I didn't work out today. And have, have you ever caught yourself saying that in, in your experience?

Well, what's interesting about that is there's two of you in that, in that, in that sentence you said, I am mad at myself. Mm-hmm. And what that means is that you are two, two entities. You have your brain, um, which is the myself, that's the identity. I'm a person that's supposed to work out. I'm a person that's supposed to be mentally strong.

It's a, it's a made up bullshit story that the myself, that the ego tells you about you to keep you safe. But the I am, that's who you are. That's who, that's the unshakeable, uh, spirit of the true essence of rocky. And, and nothing changes that. And that's where we really want to, um, grow. And we want to use our mind as a tool.

But right now, for a good chunk of human beings, that tool is using us. Mm-hmm. And, and if we find that that tool is using us, often we get mad at it or we get upset that we were, we were duped by our brain in a story that it made up. And that's more harmful. It's a, it's a, it's a beautiful tool that you want to have, um, gratitude that it's there.

It's just to keep you safe. And so a lot of mindset is understanding that you have two th two things that, two tools and one's the North Star though. And, and that's the one that has to be honored. And that's the one that, that is your, you, you know, the answers there. You don't have to think about them. And that sort of, um, you're thinking or like argue with people, you know, like if I said something like, um.

I think guns should all be melted down a a hundred percent of all guns on the planet melt them all down. Like that's a position that some people will have an argument against. Yeah. That's how I know that that's not me. And, and it's things like that. If it tells a story of, um, the past, oh man, Rocky's not gonna want me on this podcast 'cause my brother threw a dad at his head.

Um, you know, that that's also this, it speaks in past and it speaks in future. I'm gonna murder a hundred million human beings in this century because I want the future to be better. That's that. We wouldn't, we wouldn't do that with, with our essence, with our spirit. It, it doesn't, it doesn't live in that, it doesn't need to.

It's, it's infinite and it's eternal. And, and I think that's what we sort of need to hold space for people who are stuck here. And, and just remind them who they, who they really are. And that's a big part of, um, how my coaching has shifted is, is really just, just that. Um, and it's a, it's a weird thing because I can't tell you those answers.

It's something that either, you know, I'm telling the truth or you don't. And that's a, that's an interesting, interesting, uh, other thing on, on mindset. Um, so you said that it's sort of changed from when you were an athlete to Yeah. Being a trainer. Is there anything else that you needed to sort of unlearn from your mindset as a athlete and to become a sort of a trainer slash business owner?

Yeah, I think, um, there's, like, there's a third way as a saying that I've been saying a lot is that, um, we used to do things this way and, and then people would say, no, that's wrong. There's a third way that both of these people are. And you've just gotta find that. And, and often that's not, um, in a book, it, it might not even be created yet because this is individual to you and, and the issue that you are having.

Um, and, but there is a third way, you know, like if you look at, um, most of the time it's, it's, it's, it's one of compassion. So, um, uh, you're stuck in the mud, right. Um, is a, is a really easy way to, to, to, I guess, um, speak from where people feel, right? There's a lot of people right there that are out in the world that are stuck in the mud for whatever, whatever reason.

Mm-hmm. Right? Um, there's, there's only two options, right? The one is to, to be, oh, I'm gonna be at peace and I'm just gonna stay here in the mud. Like, that's wrong. Get your ass out of the mud. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, take action. And that's, that's not me being, um. Pressuring or, or being a bastard about your situation, but like, no one wants to be in mud.

Right. And if you do, you're, you're insane. So get out of the mud, right. Just accept that I'm into mud, but get out of it. You have the skill if you are in mud to get out of it, you've just gotta take action, that you've gotta get out of it. Whatever that, whatever that is, it will be action based. And, and I can't speak on all of the scenarios in which you would classify as mud, but I do know you have, you have to get out of it.

Mm-hmm. Right. And, and if you, yeah, I guess for mud, for different people is obviously different things as well. Um, that could be anything really. Ly there are some, from my job for the last 13 years, I've seen a lot of different people in a lot of different sorts of mud and, um, sometimes you just really wanted to.

More than anything, just given them a way to get out of it no matter what they've done. Um, for me, for me it was more about helping them get to a better place where they can, um, yeah. Get out of the mud. Yeah. Um, we, again, we were talking before, um, just about, um, when things sort of changed for you in regards to the rehab and stuff, and that was, when was it Doug Hatten came to Yep.

City Fitness. Um, what did that whole experience and interaction with, uh, uh, him, how did that change everything for you? Yeah. So, um, I was working as a trainer at City Fitness New Plymouth, or going back early two thousands and, um, working for Neil Wa staff and, um, the owners of City Fitness, I think it was Dominic Rogerson at the time, went and headhunted.

Um, Doug, uh, from overseas, um, brought over the NASM system and at the time, the NASM guys were the guys working with the Phoenix Suns. Um, they had other, um, people that would go and learn from them. And, and the whole idea was how do we keep NBA players, um, at, at Optimum, um, how do they play the game where they're running and jumping two to three times a week?

How do we keep them strong and resilient from injury? Uh, and they've been working on that since the early eighties, uh, at a, at a Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Um, you know, uh. There's a couple of really strong athletes from that, from that, um, range, Michael Jordan and Vince Carter. Um, and yeah, the Phoenix Sun said, we need you.

And that was the time of, you know, Steve Nash and, and um, you know, to be able to have a unathletic six foot white boy go back to back MVPs. Um, I was like, who the hell is training those guys? And then so I found out that it was nasm and then one day I come into work and they're like, oh, by the way, we've just, um, city Fitness have just signed the NASM curriculum, um, including its advanced specializations, which is where really where I wanted to go, um, to, to City Fitness.

So we'll be running that curriculum and um, yeah, I was at, I was just. Over the moon. I, I couldn't believe that, you know, the, the, the guys that train the NBA players were coming to teach me how to train my clients and, uh, yeah, started drinking the company Kool-Aid. Um, but man, you couldn't tell me anything.

I was like, yep, uh, gimme that book. Stayed up late reading it, probably to the detriment of my sleep patterns. But I was just so, um, locked in now, you know, I had the two things that I loved the most, basketball and training and, and, and those were together. Um, and then opportunities to, to, you know, work with and listen to and be mentored by these guys.

And, and yeah, it just, uh, took me on a journey over, you know, 11 years, um, with City Fitness and, and tried to work my way up and, and, and learn as much as I could. Um, and yeah, became, I became a, a, a quite a valuable cog for the company, whereas, um, the trainers would fly in, uh, to a central location in Wellington.

Um, and I would, um, share that. Knowledge, whether it was advanced specialization, performance enhancement, so they wanted to know plyometrics or whether it was injury, rehab. They wanted to know corrective exercises. Um, depending on all those two things are at different ends of the spectrum. Um, and I, yeah, really, really dug into the, to the books and to the texts and, and, um, yeah, it was, it was a match made in heaven and, and, uh, forever grateful that, that I went on that trajectory.

You know, the universe knows what it's doing. What was at that time, what was setting NASM apart from everyone else? What was it that they were doing that was, um, yeah, what were they doing that was setting them as apart from everybody else? I mean, I don't think they were doing, um, a, a lot in the, in the, that was different in the middle section.

I think. Like when it, and what I mean by that is, um, how to train, uh, use weights. How to, how to lift, how to, how to program. Um, majority of that stuff has been around since, you know, seventies. Eighties and, and it's sort of like accepted now that, that if you lift weights, you get this, if you do cardio, you get this.

Um, where I think they sort of, um, spearheaded it was, we've got NBA guys to deal with. They, they're coming off this, um, highly stressful, highly shock inducing, um, games and, and, and, um, 82 games in one season, you know of, and you, there's no, we wouldn't have played 82 games in my, you know, five years of, of basketball, you know, and so, um, and, and that took wear and tear on my body.

So the amount of work that you have to do to be able to understand those higher level athletes, um, and then we, how do we modify that for, um, Joe or Mary that come in and they've got a sore back or a sore knee? And so I think it was, um, call it the five percenters, the very top athletes and, and the, the, the very low end.

I think that's where they sort of, um, at that time, um, really, really pushed the game forward, um, from a PT perspective. But, um, I think it's, we've gotta be careful with a lot of labels. You know, there's a lot of people out there that are like, oh, this company sucks because you only do a weekend or da da da da da da.

Um, the reality is we're supposed to all be on the same team and that's the human race. And can you, are you a student or are you somebody that has a plaque above your bed that said, back in the day you studied really hard and you submitted something to a professor and you got that tick, and now you no longer study and, and research and, and, and do those things.

And if you are that person, um, yeah. Hopefully, uh, I can hold some space and be compassionate and, and encourage you to go back to, to learning something. Um, you know, you, we can't learn at all. Um, but, but chase the thing that you, you're good at and, and, um, and know that I'm happy that you're on my team. Mm.

Helping as many people as you can. Well, like a lot of things. I guess it's just about, um, finding out what works for you. 'cause everyone's different, I guess. Um, just, um, at searching. I think searching and the journey is highly underrated. I think some people just take what they know and, and go with it and that's fine.

Um, but sometimes if you look further, there's a lot out there that, um, could make you better. Oh, absolutely. Um, I mean, I think like, you know, being, being a cop and having that experience, you've seen some wild stuff and I think that that. Um, you know, is, is not only the mud for the person that you are dealing with, but it also, you know, you take the energy home with you and, and, and that's a, that's a massive weight.

And, and so I guess the, the, there's some people that their brain has been affected so much that they want to be in the mud, and that's, that's even harder for another human being to see somebody that, that could get out of that mud, but is choosing to go deeper into it. And I think that's, um, you know, something that I'll, I'll try and hold space for as well and be compassionate about with not only people that are having those struggles, but also people that bring that home with them.

you put your back out? Yeah.: 2013

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About: 2013

Was there a point where you, uh, you felt like, um, helping someone feel more comfortable and more like, I guess better in their body was more important than sort of helping them to perform better? Or is, or are those things the same or is that, yeah. It's funny now that you asked that because back in the day, um, you know, before it came to Bali, uh, I would just sort of hang my hat on the fact that you.

We're injured and now you're back playing at a top level yet go, go me as the trainer. Whereas I think my, my goalposts have shifted now, whereas it's, if you, um, understand that your mind isn't your identity and you are, you are this essence, um, then, then I've done my job now and how does that, and, and how do we do that?

And, and as well as that, if you've had an injury, how do we get you back on the field? And, and that, that's been massive. And, um, you know, it, it's sort of borderline on that woo woo stuff, um, you know, that people talk about. But I think that the, these things are, these ideas are sort of coming together with the science on one side, supporting, um, supporting the magic or the woo woo or the, or the spirit or the energy or whatever you, you are saying.

I think we're gonna end up in the, in the same place. So, um, but yeah, if you asked me a year ago, the answer would've been much different to, to what it is now. Mm-hmm. Um. Yeah. Well that's all about evolving as well. I mean, you're evolving. If you're not evolving, then what's really sort of happening? Um, yeah.

I guess on if we talk about evolving, so your coaching style has obviously evolved since, um, you started. Is there anything like from when you first started training and coaching and is there anything you look back now and go, I can't believe that I sort of did that, or I sort of thought that, or Oh, absolutely.

So much. Um, I think one of the first lessons that we learn is, um, not all players, not all great players, um, can become great coaches. Hmm. It's a, like, if you think about the greatest coaches on the planet, they were never the best player. And that's an, that's an interesting, um, that's an interesting. Thing to look at and to analyze.

And, um, I think I fell into that trap as, as a somebody that had played, I had a certain understanding of the way the game should be played and tried to, um, give as much value as I possibly could. Um, my heart was always in the right place, but I think I missed on a few important things that you need to be as a coach.

Um, and that's why I no longer coach basketball. Um, I try and skill trainer, um, mainly because I feel. The level for where I was to the next step of being an assistant coach or a head coach, say at NBL one, even though I've been an assistant coach at nbl L one before that, that jump to get a good position, the amount of work is way more than I, like.

When I saw it, I was like, that's, that's too much, um, too much of my time where I've got value in rehabbing, um, people. Um, I can't, I can't commit to that. Um, but I respect that. Um, the top level coaches unbelievable, unbelievable jobs. Um, but I think we need to sort of get that, um, book out and go, uh, what's in the job description, you know, like at what level do I have to not do the kids' laundry, you know, gimme all the 11 shirts and, and I'll bring it back on Monday, you know?

Um, and, and, and I think that that's. I mean, I'm always coaching, right? Yeah. Coaching's a weird term. I'm coaching, uh, clients, I'm coaching anybody that's listening. Um, but it's not being the head coach of a, of a pro, pro team. And, uh, that thing, I could see how big of a monster that is and I can see why the top guys get paid the way they get paid.

And I realized that I hadn't done enough, um, learning of that knowledge in that lane to, to do that, to transition to that. Um, because it's a lot more than just I, you, you, you look tired, come off and you go on. And I think that's where I sort of, um, yeah, peaked is, is, yeah, oh, well I wanna run this plane now because I've seen this.

Like, that's great. But there's people out there that have that back of their hand and it's instantaneous and they're doing a whole lot of other things and the amount of sleepless nights that they have. Um, I wasn't, I wasn't about that life because I was already having sleepless nights about. Gym training stuff.

Gym, yeah. Clients with injuries. Um, so you have to, you have to let one go. My favorite pastime is reading. If one of my teams lose, I just love getting online and reading everyone, telling the coach how to coach it's epidemic. I just feel like, what are you talking about? I don't, and this guy's getting paid and obviously he is doing it like he's good enough to actually do it, so.

Yep. I think the other thing that's really funny, just on the last thing on that is, um, let's say it's a, they're down by one. They're on the trial line and the player knocks the ball on and they lose the game. Right? Like the, the amount of people that become coaches it for that player that dropped that ball at that moment, it, it goes through the roof, right?

Mm-hmm. You should have been doing this drill at training. My uncle said like, what are we talking about here? Like, we, you have to understand that that's a hu human being, that that made a mental era after being tired. And if you can show me a human being that hasn't made a mental error after being tired, then then, you know, take my wallet.

Um, and I think that goes back to the why the All Blacks are so successful is because they hardly get tired. And I think we, we overrate weights and we underrate cardio for top level performance where it's the engine of that all black or of that black fern or, or whoever is, is playing that normally means they aren't tired at the end, so they don't make that mistake.

Yeah. Well, I can't remember who said it, but someone said that maybe it was, yeah, I can't remember. But someone said, um, Michael Jordan's never leaving comments on YouTube videos, so it's um, something right there. He knows it's royal. Wow. Yeah, you could probably, um, if he has something to say, he could probably do it anyway, so I'd probably listen to him.

Um, I mean you, yeah. If you look at what he, you know, he never talked back to, I mean, he did talk back to one of his coaches in his early career, but if you look at his com, his relationship with Phil Jackson, like he knew what he was doing. Jordan taking care of his body and well, you know, for the most part, uh, taking care of his body and, and putting in the work and in the weight room and working on his skills and getting the shots up because he knew he had someone that trusted that was working the same level as him on the coaching side, because there's just as much on that side than there is on that side.

And you have to, um, have that to be at the top level and to win as much as they did. Yeah, like mentally strong too. People like that are just, they're on a different level. Um, yeah, you could call 'em psycho as well. Um, oh yeah. Some of those guys at the top level are psychos and, and that's a necessary, um, you know, think about amount of people that, that win.

Championships or win tournaments. And, and, and thank God, uh, that's because those top level athletes have that faith in their abilities. Um, because they really believe. And, and, and the ones that that don't, you know, speak about God are like, I, I had that and I would argue that that's the similar thing, you know, is that these guys just don't go to church as much.

Do you think it's necessary to sort of train presence as well as strength in the gym? Or does it just come along with the same thing? Um, I hope it's something that people, people do like, um, is a massive gift and, and like, and being present. Mm. And like being alert. And if you a martial arts fan, you know, that's what you, you're doing when you meditate.

It's what you're doing when you're, when you're doing your Caras, it's what you're, you know, the more space that you have, the more focused you are, the more that you'll easily find that flow state and, and be able to perform without, um, stories, um, in your head of, um, oh no, this, this is a situation that went wrong and, and it's gonna go wrong again.

Um,

and I think that's, that's huge. That can you, can you hold space for yourself? I, I mean, to get to your point, I, I think mental toughness is, can be measured. I think it can be measured by, if I make a mistake, make a mistake, how many seconds before I get back to my job. And, and some players will make mistakes and complain to the ref.

That would be my definition of a mentally weak player. Yeah. And, and you know, it's the, um, miss a goal. How long does it take me to get over myself and get back playing defense? And, and that's how I would measure mental toughness. But I think we, um, as, as casuals, as, as people that are armchair critics, I think we make up a lot of terms for stuff that doesn't exist.

Um, I think we say things like discipline. The athlete has to have discipline. Um, another athlete has goals. That athlete has things that drive them. They, they write down that they sign contracts with themselves, um, and they have a vision board and they let nothing get in the way of that. And we, the armchair casual call that discipline.

'cause we don't write things down because we don't choose to, to, to make a, make a goal. We don't choose to get out of the mud. And, and that because the, that keeps the brain safe and that's all it's doing. Right? It's like a hot stove. If you touch a hot stove, your brain goes, take your hand off that. 'cause that's gonna burn you.

You take your hand off it. That thing that tells you to do that is also telling you, stay in the mud, criticize that person. 'cause then that will make you feel better because you didn't go to the gym today. Mm. And if we feel better, we can have that donut. And so there's a lot of things that we, we create and it can come across quite mean and cold.

But I'm just trying to, um, give my my perspective and, and, and hope that if someone was to ask me their specific story, I'd be able to say it in a compassionate way, um, and hold space for them. Um, I mean, I find myself saying that a lot, but I think that's the answer, right? Like, you don't need to, to read the Bible or go to church to know that a, a religious leader was compassionate.

Like that's step one, right? Just do that. You don't even have to go to church or, or, or pray. Just be compassionate. He was right? Like, like sum it up and then take action. Right? Well, what is the action? Oh, okay. I wanna write some goals. Okay, well, what's the, what's the first goal? Okay, well, what steps do I have to do to do that?

Alright, well, I can't go to the gym until Monday because my car's at the shop. That's fine. F what can I do now? Alright, I'll go for a walk. Whatever you can do now, do that action. 'cause you'll have that energy for that action. Then a lot of people are like, ah, man, I don't wanna go to the gym on Wednesday.

Ah, got so much on like, you're creating a story in your head to keep you safe, to keep you at home, to keep you in layers of fat. Like, that's, that's how your, your brain is wired and the worst thing you can do is get mad at that. Mm. It's doing its job of touching the hot stove and taking you off. You have to be grateful that it's there.

You just need to use it as a tool by being present. And I guess that's what I mean by presence in the, in the gym. Um, a a lot of the time if you're doing an exercise, you don't have time to think about what. You know, oh man, I've gotta run to the shop after this. You, you, you're gonna get crushed, by the way.

So sometimes the event makes, forces you into presence. Um, and, you know, the more that you play top level sport, the more that you're in high pressure situations, the more that you can't be, oh, what, what homework have I got to do? Like, you're gonna about to get tackled. So, so there's, you know, they get to experience presence more than an armchair person.

They get to experience story more. And that's sort of what I, what I wanna, yeah. Like after af Well, when I do work out afterwards, um, I do feel fantastic. Like, it's, it's a great feeling. And I guess just what you're talking about, it's just getting there, um, getting to a point where I am training more constantly and searching for that.

I mean, I guess the, the thing I would ask you there is, is, is why do you need to feel fantastic

and, and there's no. Or, or, right. But isn't it interesting that, that, you know, that's, um, it, it's funny that we try and search happiness, um, as, as people just because, um, happy and sad are on the same wavelength. Maybe it's not the best thing to go for because, you know, like if me and you went to a funeral of somebody that we knew from school mm-hmm.

Um, you could be sad, but I could be happy. I could be happy maybe because they're out of, um, pain. Yeah. You could be sad and we both be right. But those are on the same wavelength. So if you're trying to be happy, it's gonna have to come with sad because that's how that wavelength works. Yeah. And, and it's only like, because of the situation that you're gonna be happy or sad.

So I try not to assign things like that to tasks. I just go and do a task. Yeah. Right. Like, and, and, um. I, and this is what I try and explain as, as, and it sounds weird, but if I'm after a feeling, I'm after peace. And if I'm after a feeling, I'm after joy. Those are the two feelings that don't have opposites.

So I'm gonna try and take actions that equal to put me in those. So is this gonna gimme peace or is this gonna gimme joy that determines my action? Right. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Um, rather than, I just wanna be happy because that means that technically right now you're sad and, and, and you can't, you can't really win that.

And I mean. Saying that if you are joyous and you find something that lights you up and it's riding a horse or painting a picture, and that brings you happiness too. Like I'm all for that. I'm not saying don't try and be po find positives or something like that, but they, maybe it's the, maybe it's not the right one for that.

And maybe the thing that you do, it's otherwise you're just doing it to be happy rather than doing it to increase your muscles, increase your strength, live longer for your whanau, um, you know, be able to protect yourself should anything kick off, you know, do you know what I mean? Um, for sure. Yeah. Um, crazy.

Yeah, I guess like being happy, I guess for me, being happy is knowing all that would come if I work out, I guess. Does that make sense? Um, I guess it's, maybe it's not the happiness after working out, I guess it's more feeling better. My body and not about myself. 'cause I, yeah, I don't have any, like, I, yeah, I guess mentally I'm at a good place right now.

It's just physically, um, could probably do more. But like I said, just getting out when I can to walk, um, and slowing, starting slow because I've done it before where you just start off like a rocket ship and it comes crashing down the next day and you can't do anything anyway. So it's just pointless. Yep.

And I mean, I think that's something that we've gotta be careful about as well is, is the, the goal is to get in the gym door. That's the goal. Yeah. The goal is to, to to work the turn up muscle. Right. And, and I've gone to the gym before and done 15 minutes and gone, nah, this is, I can't, it's not for me today.

I, I still won that day. Yeah. And, and I think that's where we've sort of gotta shift the narrative. Um, if we're trying to be optimal athletes, you can't, you can't do that. Right. You could, you just have to push through. Right? Yeah. But I find that they don't need that motivation because they've got that wishlist.

They've got those goals. They've, they've made that contract with themselves, you know, like it's, that, that's why they're the top level. Mm-hmm. They just don't, they don't have to have this battle with themselves. They just, it's something they do just 'cause it's for, well, because it's also because it's for a bigger purpose.

Right. They know the more they lift and the more that they do their cardio, the, the more optimal they'll be on the field. And that's what lights 'em up. That's what gives them joy. That's what brings them peace. Knowing that they, they played the best, um, gave their best 40 minutes or 80 minutes or whatever, whatever the sport is.

And oftentimes, I know for myself, the reason I didn't go to the gym is I stopped playing professional or semi-professional basketball. I didn't have that other thing. So it was like I didn't need to set the table 'cause I wasn't planning on eating. And, and now I realize, no, I can, I can just make something right?

Like I just have to put a goal down, whatever it is. Um, I want to beat my daughters when they're 23 in a one-on-one of basketball. I'm gonna write that down. 'cause if you don't write the goal down, the things don't get done. And then I'm gonna be the person that does that. And some days that means I'm present and I'm just gonna lie on the couch and watch TikTok all day.

I can be present and do that and not feel guilty because I'm doing it with the best of my focus. Um, I'm still got some, um, energy I'm keeping inside and I'm still alert if something, a bird crashes into the window, it's not gonna freak me out. I'm gonna go and fix that, that mud, whatever. Yeah. Um, but I can still go and sit on a park bench for two years and, and just enjoy nature and be that's be okay with that.

I'm just choosing now, what am I doing now? And I just do that forever. Yeah. Right. Because the past is just a memory and the future is just an illusion. 'cause it only happens now, like five minutes from now won't happen in five minutes. It, it'll happen now, but in five minutes time. Yeah. Does that make sense?

It'll always be now. So there's never a future. Yeah. So the more that this brain talks about, oh, when you're on a podcast, you're gonna mess it up and da da da. Like, okay, cool. Thanks. Not helpful. Yeah. I'll ignore you at the moment. Keep trying, you know, or whatever. You know, it, it's a, it's a weird, um, it's a weird thing that we, we live in.

Right? Well I think that's, um, a lot, like a lot of my self-talk is always like that and I've just slowly started to learn that. Um, you just need to be more, well, I do need to be more, uh, trust myself that I can do things. Um, 'cause it's always constantly, I think, uh, one of the messages you sent me that if, um, we all, was it, we all talked out loud, what we're actually thinking in our heads, we'll be arrested or like, we gone, we'll be going somewhere, but Absolutely.

Yeah. Right. It's like a definition of insanity as you watch some lady at the park or a guy at the park. Yelling outside, you know, whatever's in their head. They're just spurting it out and you're like, oh, that person needs to be taken into a padded cell. But we do that ourselves every day. We just day Don't say it out loud.

Yeah. And I think that what's important for what you said was you said self-talk, and that's not yourself. You gotta be careful with giving that an identity. That's, it's, that's how it has power is That's not you. You don't talk bad about you, you, you just are you, you know? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There, there's no self.

We don't need to have a self. Like that's a big, massive mistake. There is no self. Why do we, why do we need an identity? Yeah. It's not gonna be, um, you know, I'm not gonna be, you know, at your 60th birthday telling a speech about. The time that you mentally felt down and you got over it with some positive self-talk, like that's not what anybody's story is.

Yeah. So don't make an identity out of it. That's this thing. Trying to be a bad tool. Yeah. No, that's fair. Um, you know, it's tough. We could talk forever, I guess, and we probably will in future times. Absolutely. Um, I really appreciate a good time. Where can people find your, um, yeah, I'm on all socials, infinity Fit Coach.

Um, so it's TikTok, uh, I'm on, uh, Instagram, um, and uh, infinity fit coach.com. It's the website. Um, we're giving away free movement testing. So it's a one month free dip into, uh, what it's like to work with an elite movement movement coach, um, from anywhere in the world. So, um, those are free at the moment. Um, I dunno how long, I'll keep them free.

But yeah, you get a free month and that includes the workouts, um, includes your movement testing, includes a call where we go over what your issues are. Um, and yeah, do you wanna go over just to go over the, uh, movement test for me because I did see it? Yeah. So, um, infinity fit coach.com, um, basically what I've done is created a couple of easy movement tests that you can do in your home.

Um, you just need small tools, like a couple of little weights, um, to put your heels on and a little stretchy band. Um, you video those. We jump on a call and I just, and you tell me where you feel that, and that's your mind muscle connection or your neuromuscular connection. You are gonna say, oh, I feel this, uh, in my neck or in my shoulders.

And we're gonna go, oh, that was a low body exercise. That's not good. How do we fix that? And then, so I give you a month's free programming, um, with the warmups included. So you can do those warmups daily and then if you enjoy that system, then second month you can, you can invest, if not, no harm, no foul. Um, but it's, uh, uh, I'm giving, yeah, basically a whole month of coaching away.

No charge, easy affinity fit, coach on all social medias.  Awesome. Awesome. Thanks mate. Thanks brother.